Those of us still hanging on to the idea of ‘God’ in the onslaught of ‘The New Atheism’ are having a tough time of it, and that’s not because of the atheists.
Let’s face it, atheism is as much of a belief system as any other. It takes a lot of faith to insist that there is nothing rather than something, because as much as there may be no scientific evidence of the existence of God, there’s rather a lot to the contrary. But this is not about atheism and atheists. It’s just nice to dispense with them as summarily as they dispense with us crazies.
No, us ‘believers’ are having a tough time hanging on to a relationship with God primarily because modern religion, and modern mainline Christianity in particular, make it so.
Here’s my how-dare-he statement: Church has as much to do with God as FIFA has to do with soccer.
“How dare he!”
Actually, how dare THEY. All forms of spirituality have at their base a fundamental desire for humanity to connect with something or, dare I say it, someone larger than it. Jesus of Nazareth, a historically-verifiable dirty-footed impoverished Jewish woodworker, pretty much wrote the book on that relationship. He also had some pretty good things to say about how to treat each other too. All we have to do, he said, is realize God actually digs us, and spread the love around a little bit.
Not too hard.
Fast forward 2000 years, and we have multi-million dollar corporations having us jump through theological hoops to try and please an already-pleased and, I would imagine, an increasingly-exasperated God.
By corporations I mean ‘churches’, of course.
My belaboured point is that church is often just about Church, just as Christian music is about entertainment, just as FIFA is about money. The plot has been jettisoned long ago. FIFA was initially a global effort to glorify soccer. Remember that? Music used to be about music, radio used to be in the public interest, medicine for the public good, democracy for the people. Etcetera etcetera ad nauseum.
If I sound disaffected and, well, pissed off, that’s because I, well, am. Jesus was about freedom. Modern Christianity is about church. That’s why so many ‘believers’ are breaking away and trying to figure out for themselves why some of the arguments of atheism are so telling. How dare human beings stand between the rest of us and God and try dictate the rules and regulations?
There’s definitely a modern trend (‘revolution’, if you will) toward a more authentic expression of faith in Jesus’ way being Quite A Good One. Its naughty cousin is the ‘New Atheism’: always in the corner with a smirk on its face.
Now, if only we could see a similar trend in soccer, dammit.
I await the howls with eagerness.
Hey John, Really enjoying your posts when I have the time to read them I could not agree more with you, I find your approach quite refreshing.
ReplyDelete/Kevin
no how dare he! here... just a big fat Hell YES! I work with teenagers at a church (some people like to call me a youth pastor, but I'm not convinced about that title...) and one of the biggest struggles I have is to raise my head and say that maybe the bible can be read in a different way (maybe it's not so infallable... I hear the howls), but it's a book full of good ideas for human fulfilment - and admittedly some bad ones - but it's a book that gives some really good insights to living well... and that 'doing' church and churchy syuff isn't the same as following Jesus... because, um, following Jesus is following Jesus and humming along to Hillsongs and spouting the Christianese vocab like a pro is like Christian Porn, because lets face it, there are a lot of 'Christians' and 'Christian artists' who've whored themselves out to money and a captive market. I love the movie Dogma, where Alanis Morissette plays the part of God at the end of the movie and is something completely unexpected (a good looking woman - shock horror). not bound by human dogma. bound in our pretty gift box that we think the world will lap up.
ReplyDeletethats why sometimes I'm embarrased to call myself a (ahem ahem, is anyone looking??) Christian... but someone has to be the voice inside the monster calling for change, at least that's what helps me sleep at night.
John,
ReplyDeleteHi from an old friend from Varsity.......loved your music then, when Charmane and I followed you around the dodgy pub scene in Durbs to listen to you .... but love your sound even more now.
Just wanted to wish you all the best for the release of your solo albumn - am looking forward to my own copy!
P.S Am following your twitterings as "Fertilitree" if you want to chat and get in contact.
Keep the posts and the MUSIC coming
Candice
Hi John was good meeting with you last night and sensing your similar struggles. I read you blogs. Yes some are ramblings -just agreeing with you :) But deciphering what you had to say I think I understand the essence of it. Especially the FIFA and soccer eg. coming to mind. Ive used the older eg. before going to church dont make you a christian as much parking in a garage dont make you a car. (I like your eg. more though) And it goes deeper what you have to say,I know.. performance and... like I say to my wife "hyper-active" christians. Hey not that I have it all together. and I dont want to judge guys. But a wife and 3 boys and walking with the Word for the last 12 years has taught me a bit. And not about conforming to all sorts of activities, "works" performance whichever we call it...
ReplyDeleteAnd I have found "being" in a relationship with the creator is a lot more fluid-like or organic. Even as the grass grows, not in a set pattern -it just grows. Anyway Im probably the one rambling now. But what I am saying is its not about all these works and events. Its simply about love and faith.... and walking in our freedom. Not all sorts of works and programs.
Anyhow heres a little nugget of something I personally found encouraging. From a blog someone by the name of Ed Elliot put up. I found it inspiring heres the link cause its cooler to view with the pic. copy,paste and check out.
http://edelliott.tumblr.com/post/576614052/a-true-brave-heart
It worth a quick read, its quite inspiring I promise. And sums up some points quite well I think. I posted on your facebook page. If you want to reply to me Im on there
-facebook.
All the best with the launch of your new CD! My wife and I were just reminicing how she organised the "battle of the bands" in East London, what 10 years ago? and you guys won it. It was done in the Christian Centre there in Beacon Bay remember that?... in the starting days... It was you guys right?. hey that was before I was even married to her and had kids, so a while ago.
Anyhow keep well, Brandon.
John, why not be really gutsy actually state what your issue is with "mainline Christianity" and the Church, rather than make potshots at them, merely making room for ignorant folks like missionboy above to attack the infallibility of Scripture and go unchallenged? What theology is considered a "hoop" you have to jump through? You do realize that you too have a theology; everyone does, it's just a matter of whether that theology is true or not. Play the man and actually spell out your beef so that those of us who care about the truth can either support you, or at least know that you've truly gone off the rails of biblical orthodoxy.
ReplyDelete"...Attack the infallibility of Scripture and go unchallenged" Why are we so hung up on this infallibility story? What are we so afraid of? Why can't we live some Christianity, and not so much Biblianity? The Bible is important, yes, but we need to assign it its proper place.
ReplyDeleteAnd why the need to put John "inside" or "outside" the "biblical orthodoxy" box? Isn't this exactly the problem with evangelical Christianity today? We're obsessed with defining whether we are Christian enough! And decide who's "in"/saved or "out"/unbelievers.
Ignorance Stephen. The God of reality is the God of the scriptures. The Christianity you seek to follow is that of a god you've crafted in your own imagination to fit your preferences.
ReplyDeleteThe church has become a dirty word for many because the bad examples we have seen. This is the tendency we have though- spending too much energy on trying to correct the imperfect vessels rather than getting on with the job. It is always a red herring.
ReplyDeleteLook at the apostle paul for eg. This "modern christianity" you point out- where the gospel is often used as a "get rich" scheme is not modern at all. Phillipians 1 shows us that Paul: the apostle of grace himself wasn't taken in by this red herring, but rather responded- "the important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."
I submit to you that those "corporations" you attack in your blog are the imperfect mouthpiece that carry the message of Christ, and although from whatever motive (an issue that bugs me as much as you) the gospel (that life changing message) is still being preached, and still has that same power to change peoples lives.
Added to this-look elsewhere! see the most amazing move of God in all history. more people are following our Jesus and laying down their lives amidst terrifying persecution than ever before.
There are 2 ways to say something positive: the double negative is always the red herring because for a moment it shifts our gaze away from whats authentic.
Yes- there is still imperfection in "the church". Until then- lets just keep our eyes on Jesus. If our religion is all about him, then he becomes perfect theology to us. "He is the image of the invisible God" Col 1:5
and besides.. Jesus was the greatest revolutionary the world ever saw.
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ReplyDeleteT. Austin Sparks "God's way and law of fullness is that of organic life. In the Divine order, life produces its own organism, whether it be a vegetable, animal, human or spiritual. This means that everything comes from the inside. Function, order and fruit issue from this law of life within. It was solely on this principle that what we have in the New Testament came into being. Organized Christianity has entirely reversed this order."
ReplyDeleteGod knows, I share many of your sentiments that I’ve been reading on your blog, and in all your tweeting. Been a fan since just-about-the-beginning. I remember hearing Gravity on 5fm and got your album as soon as it hit the shelves. Then discovered you had one before it and got that one. A fan, you see.
ReplyDeleteBut I’ve gotta ask, what good is it slamming the Christians? I mean, people have differences, they fight, they kill each other and make up later, and so forth. Take a family for instance. You might think your uncle is an idiot, or your dad is dense and old fashioned and doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Sometimes you hate your brother’s guts, but then he’s still your brother; and then when you’ve cooled down things get on again. And in the worst of times, you still don’t go around slamming your mom on the internet because she’s self-righteous, or whatever. There should be a sort of common decency that keeps you from mud-slinging about it on the internet, not so?
People who don’t believe in God or battle to hang on now look at this turn of events and say “A-ha, you see…” But truth is, just because 9 out of 10 Christians are goofs, it doesn’t change a single thing about God. But people don’t look at it that way. They insist on looking at the nut jobs going around claiming to be speaking on God’s behalf. So I can’t help thinking that you’d achieve something more worthwhile by talking about what is real about God, without concerning yourself about the Props and the Pharisees. Jesus is a fact of history, either to be dismissed as a mad man as Lewis says, or to be acknowledged as the Son of God. I think all this conversation takes away from that important distinction and we’re all tweeting and posting a bunch of crap by focussing on people. Who here isn’t a fruitcake in his own special way?
I dig your music, and I’m pretty sure I’ll continue to buy your tracks, I’m quite pumped that you went independent. But I’ll probably steer clear of the tracks with all the teenage angst in them. Just don’t see the point. You don’t need to be the Christian poster boy, but I miss you man… Gravity, No Words, Anxious Seat, Surprise Surprise, Stumbling Stone, Overdue, Look what You’ve done, Treasure… all these tracks have meant a lot to me. Now I don’t suppose I have much of the same to look forward to, because we have a gazillion people to get back at first. I think the Tree had it more together than the Rolling Stone. But what do I know.
I agree with the guy above.
ReplyDeleteDon't be too mad at imperfection.
Just keep giving us visions of perfection - Christ.
Hey John,
ReplyDeleteYou’ve always been a revolutionary. And we love you for it.
As always your above post is hugely entertaining and makes some really valid points.
“If I sound disaffected and, well, pissed off, that’s because I, well, am. Jesus was about freedom.”
No I don't agree. To me, Jesus was not about freedom or not only about freedom. He was about the church. Everything he did was for the people he died for – to build a group of people who lived in relationship with Him.
Eph 1:19 That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church”
Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
“And he is the head of the body, the church”
Jesus did it all for the church. Not the “modern church” which you speak about, the religious church. Jesus was the biggest revolutionary of all in the way he tore into the Pharisees, used a whip to drive people out the temple, dressed his disciples down when they needed it etc.
But in the end his actions built and strengthened the church, laid solid foundations etc.
So for me, FIFA should be about soccer, music about music, radio about public interest, medicine about people getting better, democracy about freedom for the people… and the church should be about Jesus and Jesus’ focus for his people… the church. Not the modern church, not the Acts church, not the legalistic churches or the grace churches or any other man made kind of church.
Jesus is about the church of which he is the head. Our journey should be to come to understand what the body of Jesus should really look like. This should not be a journey to live “outside the box” or to try and reform man made churches (that’s like the new wine in the old wineskin story which Jesus told.)
But surely our drive must be a unifying one (even where drastic revolutionary measures are sometimes used) to be what He intended us to be? Otherwise we may as well just give it up and be atheists right :P
Hey John,
ReplyDeleteYou’ve always been a revolutionary. And we love you for it.
As always your above post is hugely entertaining and makes some really valid points.
“If I sound disaffected and, well, pissed off, that’s because I, well, am. Jesus was about freedom.”
No I don’t agree. I think Jesus was not about freedom. He was about the church. Everything he did was for the people he died for – to build a group of people who lived in relationship with Him.
Eph 1:19 That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church”
Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
“And he is the head of the body, the church”
Jesus did it all for the church. Not the “modern church” which you speak about, the religious church. Jesus was the biggest revolutionary of all in the way he tore into the Pharisees, used a whip to drive people out the temple, dressed his disciples down when they needed it etc.
But in the end his actions built and strengthened the church, laid solid foundations etc.
So for me, FIFA should be about soccer, music about music, radio about public interest, medicine about people getting better, democracy about freedom for the people… and the church should be about Jesus and Jesus’ focus for his people… the church. Not the modern church, not the Acts church, not the legalistic churches or the grace churches or any other man made kind of church.
Jesus is about the church of which he is the head. Our journey should be to come to understand what the body of Jesus really looks like. This should not be a journey to live “outside the box” or to try and reform man made church structures (that’s like the new wine in the old wineskin story which Jesus told.)
But surely our drive must be a unifying one (even where drastic revolutionary measures are sometimes used) to be what He intended us to be? Otherwise we may as well just give it up and be atheists right :P
My mom has said that when you really know Jesus you won’t find yourself needing to join anything. And boy is there a lot out there you can join.
ReplyDeleteI went with my parents to a church called the Invisible Church in the 80's. Now I understand what the name was designed to convey. And it's one of the best names I have come across.
But here's the problem. There’s still something going on visible and business like enough that you can name! Jesus on the other hand seemed content that the revelation of Himself in and among us would be sufficiently evident by the love we have for one another.
I propose that as soon as something of Kingdom orientation becomes visible and cohesive (organised) enough to attract a name to itself, you'll find Jesus is probably ready to shut it down. Or possibly preserve a remnant and take it somewhere else. He just seems to work like that.
The translucent intangibility of the Kingdom utterly shakes our fallen need for control, to fully comprehend everything around us, to know it, name it, place it and direct it.
But 'The son of man has no place to lay his head'.
And ‘as you cannot tell where the wind comes from or goes to, so it is with those born of the Spirit’
And ‘you cannot say about the Kingdom ‘there it is’, or ‘here it is’ for the Kingdom is within (among) you’
And many other things He said to emphasize the unearthly origin of the Kingdom He continues to establish among men in the face of anything and everything that opposes it.
Personally I’m watching and waiting and even working to see the church as we very commonly encounter it to utterly disappear from visibility above the pop radars and radiate from between the cracks in the sidewalk of society, which is where I think it was always meant to shine from.
Yes it is already doing that, but most times you won’t know because it’s not looking for attention. What will be great is when it only does that so that we’re not confused anymore about what church is and isn’t.
Ashton
Personally I believe that many people are disillusioned, upset furious and even "fallen" away because of what has been happening in the name of Christianity in church.
ReplyDeleteIt has become about MY reward, MY breakthrough, MY comfort, MY commitment to Christ, My kinda music, The size of MY church, MY Ministry, MY church, ME ME ME MY MY MY. It"s become Christian Consumerism. Whats in it for ME.
The fact is that Christianity is about JESUS and JESUS only. Its about what Jesus has done, Its about obeying Jesus, Its about loving Jesus, its about hearing from Jesus, Its about honouring Jesus.
People often become Christians to get what has been promised in the pulpits (these promises are made to draw people) rather the promises of Jesus/God.
Too much ME has caused the disappointment amoungst Christians. I squarely put the blame on the doorstep of Pentecostal and Charismatic theology. The theology that says "It's about ME!"
Denvor
John you bought me, a back then 17 yr old girl from a council estate rough upbringing and non believing girl, to faith.
ReplyDeleteA million lights is my fave song in the world.
Thank you
Hi John,
ReplyDeleteI realise that this post is old, but I just wanted to tell you that your early songs had an extremely important place in the formative years of my faith. Man, I just listened to your version of Amazing Grace now and it gave me chills. So many great songs from your heart.
You have some extremely valid points. Don't let the imperfections of people cloud the perfection of God. We can just never measure up. And that's not what we have to do - it is already done. I do share some of your frustrations, and I encourage you to look beyond the lameness and up to the awesomeness. He must be pretty exasperated!
All the best.